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"The founder of Extinction Rebellion has been jailed for five years in what is believed to be the longest sentence for non-violent protest in the UK.
Roger Hallam was found guilty of conspiring to block traffic as part of a Just Stop Oil campaign on the M25 over four days of disruption in November 2022"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/18/extinction-rebellion-founder-jailed-for-five-years/
In what way is this good news? Oh, and that link is behind a paywall. Do you pay to read the Telegraph? A suspended sentence would have been more appropriate
Good news?
I'm making a brew, who's got the biscuits?
It’s ok everyone they’re here to save us from the echo chamber.
Do you pay to read the Telegraph? A suspended sentence would have been more appropriate
I mean, it's bad - but jail for it? Not sure personally, esp if it's a momentary lapse of judgement
Ok, playing devil’s advocate, if people are going to go down for five years for planning (but not executing) a non-violent protest, why not just riot?
Might as well hang for a sheep as for a lamb.
(Apart from being a bad day for people’s right to protest in a democracy…)
This is genuinely scary news. You can now go to jail for peacefully protesting about the most important thing going on in the world right now? It'd be better to jail any politician that does anything that means we fail to meet next zero by 2030.
I don't remember IRC being quite as stubbornly anti environmental and Faragey as this. Is he the new Jambalaya to @grimep 's Teamhurtmore?
How long should the chief execs of Amey and Bear get given how good they are at causing traffic chaos?
Chris Packham's comments were pretty spot on as far as I'm concerned. It's does feel like judicial bullying.
Judge saying this shouldn't set a precedent but we bloody well know it will, as does he.
Seems like a kangaroo court to me that you'd expect in Russia or a tin pot republic. Judge seems to be a nazi that vastly oversteps the mark when the defendant wants to give his full evidence.
Cue immediate appeal for a mis-trial.
What a massive waste of MY tax money
Judge quoted in this article,
If his defence was "the sun was in my eyes so I couldn't see" he'd be a free man!
@munrobiker + 1
Shocking sentences and sounds like something you'd get in some mad authoritarian state.
It's a democracy. There are plenty ways to protest and campaign without disrupting the lives of the public going about their business.
Yet prisons are overcrowded and we’re releasing convicted violent criminals who’ve served less than half their sentences to accommodate a chap whose sole purpose is to make the world a nicer place to live. The mind boggles.
Utterly ridiculous, something you’d expect a Tr*mp appointed judge to do. I hope they appeal and I’ll be donating £££ to help them do so, I’ll even put it in IRC’s name.
The guys that climbed up the Dartford crossing bridge got a few years inside too from memory.
Yes, completely disproportionate in my view.
They'll be able to appeal the severity of the sentence, if i had to guess, i'd think that the defendants might have wound up the judge through the case, it sounds like it from reports, so once found guilty, and against the level of damages the protest caused, the judge has given them the high end of the sentencing guidelines.
As the judge said
"your fanaticism makes you entirely heedless of the rights of your fellow citizens. You have taken it upon yourselves to decide that your fellow citizens must suffer disruption and harm, and how much disruption and harm they must suffer, simply so that you may parade your views.”
Hmm citizens facing disruption and harm to parade ones views. Brexit anyone?
Yet prisons are overcrowded and we’re releasing convicted violent criminals who’ve served less than half their sentences to accommodate a chap whose sole purpose is to make the world a nicer place to live. The mind boggles.
This is spot on.
Judge saying this shouldn’t set a precedent but we bloody well know it will, as does he.
I'm far from an expert but isn't this a cornerstone of how English Law works, "what did we do last time"?
It’s a democracy.
Irony meter off the scale.
“your fanaticism makes you entirely heedless of the rights of your fellow citizens. You have taken it upon yourselves to decide that your fellow citizens must suffer disruption and harm, and how much disruption and harm they must suffer, simply so that you may parade your views.”
Sounds like a future STW big hitter - can he join and log-in from prison!?
Wish the 'like' button worked
On a practical level… Where are they going to put them?
Apparently the jails are too full to send rapists and murders down, but irritating trustafarians are fair game now?
Dont get me wrong. I think they deserve punishing just for their annoying, middle-class self-righteousness and dress sense, and anyone white with dreadlocks probably deserves everything they get, but 5 years getting bummed by Barry the Knife from Toxteth seems a tad harsh
It's a remarkable sentence. Same judge didn't jail two blokes who assaulted a copper and left him needing a metal plate inserted. If they'd just abandoned a few vehicles around the M25 they'd have got a a few thousand in fines between them.
Non-violent protests are not worthy of five years in the clink, regardless of how inconvenient or costly they are.
I was in a massive traffic jam on the M25 thanks to JSO. On my way to get the Chunnel. Fortunately we had several hours spare but there must have been a reasonable number of normal people who had their holiday plans thoroughly messed up that day. Astonishingly selfish. The ends justifies the means argument is garbage and leads to a bad place.
Utterly deranged.
Sounds like a future STW big hitter – can he join and log-in from prison!?
Ha Hallam makes TJ seem like a paragon o acquiescence!
Dont get me wrong. I think they deserve punishing just for their annoying middle-class self-righteousness and dress sense, and anyone white with dreadlocks probably deserves everything they get, but 5 years getting bummed by Barry from Toxteth seems harsh
Nice. Casual homophobia mixed in with the usual centrist dad nonsensical hyperbole.
I was in a massive traffic jam on the M25 thanks to JSO. On my way to get the Chunnel. Fortunately we had several hours spare but there must have been a reasonable number of normal people who had their holiday plans thoroughly messed up that day. Astonishingly selfish. The ends justifies the means argument is garbage and leads to a bad place.
I'd share your annoyance in that situation, but do you think people should spend half a decade in jail for <checks notes> messing with people's holiday plans?
They didn’t delay the judge getting to his appointment with his dominatrix, did they?
That’d probably explain it
Will it be a sliding scale going forward? I make that 19 days in prison for every hour someone is inconvenienced.
I agree that the sentences are very high (although, they'll only serve 50% of it behind bars), but we weren't at the court and didn't hear the evidence presented. From media reports, it appears that the defence wound up the judge and thought that they would get away with it. They were guilty of what they were charged with, do they have right to cause the disruption (which they planned).
This is genuinely scary news. You can now go to jail for peacefully protesting about the most important thing going on in the world right now?
Not even peacefully protesting about it, just a Zoom call planning on peacefully protesting it.
Hehir ruled that the jury should not take into account evidence about climate breakdown, which the defendants wanted to point to as the key motivation behind their actions, and which they said provided them with a reasonable excuse for them. It's a loaded deck.
Saw a video the other day of people being arrested because they were talking about potentially having a pro-Palestinian rally/protest.... Sorry, but that's ****ed up.
In twenty or thirty years we'll look back on the Extinction Rebellion people as martyrs in the same way we look at the Suffragettes. They're not out there protesting for the sake of it, but for your kids future.
Their way of going about it may not always be the most appropriate, but the message sure is.
<devil's advocate>
"Forty-five Just Stop Oil protesters climbed gantries on the motorway in November 2022, forcing police to stop the traffic, in an attempt to cause gridlock across southern England."
So JSO didn't block traffic at all, the police did.
"Two lorries collided, and a police motorcyclist came off his bike during one of the protests"
If I drive slowly, someone takes a recklessly impatient overtake and crashes, did I cause an accident?
</devil's advocate>
5 years for conspiring to hold up traffic??
Scary.
there must have been a reasonable number of normal people who had their holiday plans thoroughly messed up that day. Astonishingly selfish
But isn't that the whole point though? When the effects of climate change are finally front and centre and cannot be ignored, nobody will be able to go on holiday. Same as the "destruction" of art they get up to - who's going to give two hoots about a painting of some sunflowers when the central third of the planet is practically uninhabitable and the rest of the world needs to make room for another ~4 billion people.
They're giving us a tiny glimpse of the least consequential effects of climate change over the next couple of decades to come and it's going over 99.9% of everyone's head.
Not seeing this as good news at all.
Totally disproportionate for a non-violent protest, especially when you look at what else will get you 4-5 years in prison it's crazy.
Is he the new Jambalaya to @grimep ‘s Teamhurtmore?
Nah, Jamby had a bit of humour to him,iirc and despite the jambafacts he wasn’t really a tool like some of the trolls seem to be aiming for nowadays.
Maybe this is the new Ninfan
people have gone to prison for murder/rape etc for less time than he has. crazy sentence!
Apparently the jails are too full to send rapists and murders down
If it was from anyone else binners I would assume that it was a Daily Mail type having a pop at Starmer and his leftie soft on crime attitude.
But since it's from you I don't know what to make of it. Apart from the glaringly obvious fact that it's bollocks.
Maybe this is the new Ninfan
Nah, imo labrat was more subtle. And he knew how to set traps for people, before striking.
I agree that Jambalaya might have been an over enthusiastic right-winger but he never struck me as actually being nasty and with no sense of humour.
a reasonable number of normal people who had their holiday plans thoroughly messed up that day
A five year sentence. For that?!? And for “winding a judge up”!?!
But since it’s from you I don’t know what to make of it. Apart from the glaringly obvious fact that it’s bollocks
It’s entirely possible I wasn’t being serious about any part of my answer Ernesto
I was deadly serious about jailing all white trustafarians with dreadlocks though, on general principle. You can throw away the key as far as I’m concerned. And if that makes me a hairist, so be it!
Ah, it's been a while since anyone has claimed the Edinburgh defence.
Forgive me, I missed the punchline of your joke
I'm no fan of JSO and think their methods have turned a lot of people you need on side against the environmental movement.
Five years though, Jeezus ****ing H Christ that's disproportionate to say the least. It's an old fashioned do as you're ****ing told or else, make an example to show the rest of them!
5 years for conspiring to hold up traffic??
Scary
Aye, some of those blinkin roadies should be worried about their disorderly chain gangs .
Reading that BBC news article about the trial it almost sounds like he went out of his way to maximise his sentence. Maybe that was the purpose of all those theatrics, I don't know.
if that makes me a hairist, so be it!
You're only jealous.
Number one item on the King's Speech should have been repealing the 2023 Public Order Act. The fact it wasn't makes me believe labour are part of the same corrupt oligarchy the Tories are.
Oh and if this issue wasn't so important I'd say don't give IRC the oxygen of clicks.
Blimey, has this already been posted?....... the judge who sent them to jail is the same judge who refused to jail a rapist. The rapist was eventually jailed by the Court of Appeal
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c880xjx54mpo
In twenty or thirty years we’ll look back on the Extinction Rebellion people as martyrs in the same way we look at the Suffragettes. They’re not out there protesting for the sake of it, but for your kids future.
Before then I think there'll be some serious eco-terrorism aimed at scaring people into changing the way we live - beyond just going on holiday. As disproportionate as it certainly is, I suspect the sentencing is aimed at sending a signal to the people that might consider much more significant disruption.
simply so that you may parade your views
"Views". Or scientifically proven that the planet is being destroyed putting the security and wellbeing of future generations in jeopardy. Exactly as @theflyingox says, if people don't like this level of disruption just wait till things really start breaking down (remember the "empty shelves" of COVID?)
The stop oil guy deserves it. Its not peaceful protesting when its causing massive disruption to everyday people. People that need to get to work to earn money, people that need to get to appointments etc.
The term "peaceful protest" refers to the fact that no violence occurred, i.e. it wasn't a violent protest
5 years for conspiring to hold up traffic??
I think if you don't want to get a long sentence, then don't piss the judge off? They were expressly forbidden by the judge to talk about climate change. In these sorts of cases, that's not uncommon for there to be restrictions on this sort of evidence (mostly a time thing) but this judge took a pretty hard line on it. The defendants were understandably un-happy about that as they reckoned it was central to why they did what they did, but then tried to both talk about it on the stand - a couple of them were arrested becasue they wouldn't shut up and/or leave the stand when directed to, and a protest outside the court about it was started by supporters, who were arrested for trying to influence a jury during a case. earning them and the 4 defendants some contempt of court charges on top of the other charges they were already facing.
Now you might agree with the protestors about their right to give evidence, I think the judge was harsh and there's probs grounds for appeal, but once you get to a court it's pretty much the Judges World and you piss abut at your own peril, you can make some legal representation about these sorts of decisions, but some of the defendants decided to defend themselves, and while the judge gave them some latitude (as they're not trained lawyers) horsing about in any court is probably not going to do you any favours.
Upshot: Harsh sentences from a Judge who probably pushed the boundaries a bit far, faced with defendants who were not going to play by the rules. FAFO applies here I think.
The disruption caused had a massive impact on everyday lives. The protesters were not violent but there were plenty of cases of ambulances not being able to get through. The physical and mental impact cant go ignoored. Hopefully after the 5 year sentence he might reconsider where he holds his protests. Just let peiple get on with their lives.
When is the right time to switch from peaceful protest to direct action? JSO believe (for the sake of all of us) that time is now.
Suffragettes made the switch in c1910 and in 1928 achieved their objective. The ANC made the switch around 1950 and in the early 1990's Apartheid was ended.
Maybe in in few decades we will look and see how silly we have been.
If I drive slowly, someone takes a recklessly impatient overtake and crashes, did I cause an accident?
You might've done, If you drive slowly enough you'll get pulled by the cops, and you might either get warned or [if it's on a m-way for instance] you might get done for dangerous driving. I think HWC 114 applies.
Edit; apologies HWC 144
The disruption caused had a massive impact on everyday lives.
Not nearly as much as climate change will. Lots of what look like complete disasters are only temporary in nature even if that time is 100years. The problem with climate change is it looks catastrophic in terms of human life and our ability to ever come back.
Just let peiple get on with their lives
Tell me you don't understand the causes of climate change without telling me you don't understand the causes of climate change.
People can't just get on with their lives. Sitting on the M25 every day in a car has to stop - people need to start living closer to where they work, working from home and using sustainable alternatives (bikes, trains, their feet). Governments need to enable these changes and introduce better policies to reduce our impact on the climate.
Despite big protests like this which are peaceful but impactful, Labour still barely mentioned climate change in their manifesto. The protests have to get bigger and more dramatic before the impacts of climate change do (and I guarantee those impacts will stop you going about your life for more than an afternoon) so government and the public take notice.
there were plenty of cases of ambulances not being able to get through.
I've heard this before but never been shown any evidence of the scale and seriousness of the problem.
I'm not a fan of JSOs tactics as I believe they are currently counter productive in terms of attracting support, and the attitude of its leaders doesn't help. The comparison with suffragettes is very valid, some form of action needs to be taken.
And, of course, while it's fine to lock up people engaged in peaceful protest when it affects us, it will be less fun when we are being sentenced to 5 years for peacefully protesting something we care passionately about. It's the principle of the over reach that's the issue rather than the specifics.
it will be less fun when we are being sentenced to 5 years for peacefully protesting
This particular group aren't getting five years for protesting, they're getting five years [in part] for arsing about in court. Given they can appeal, are likely to spend about two years inside, I think right now given the press and sympathy this is receiving, they've probably come to the conclusion it was worth it.
Didnt say i dont get climate change. Of cause it will be devistating if nothings done. But the protesters are targeting the wrong people and just angering the public.
Despite big protests like this which are peaceful but impactful, Labour still barely mentioned climate change in their manifesto.
Make Britain a clean energy superpower
"The climate and nature crisis is the greatest long-term global challenge that we face. The clean energy transition represents a huge opportunity to generate growth, tackle the cost-of-living crisis and make Britain energy independent once again. That is why clean energy by 2030 is Labour’s second mission."
https://labour.org.uk/change/make-britain-a-clean-energy-superpower/
there were plenty of cases of ambulances not being able to get through.
Provide one.
nobody will be able to go on holiday
What a ridiculous thing to say......rich people will, obvs.
Another headache landing in Starmer and Coopers in trays. Clearly the sentences are unjust. Hopefully an appeal will do the trick
Another headache landing in Starmer and Coopers in trays. Clearly the sentences are unjust. Hopefully an appeal will do the trick
Why is that, you do know the executive and the judiciary are separate branches of the government, and are for a very good reason.
The climate and nature crisis is the greatest long-term global challenge that we face. The clean energy transition represents a huge opportunity to generate growth, tackle the cost-of-living crisis and make Britain energy independent once again. That is why clean energy by 2030 is Labour’s second mission.”
That and 8.3bn still qualifies as barely especially given what GB energy actually is.
As said before it's absolutely nowhere near enough or on point. And given Labour's ability to withdraw anything - I will believe it when I see it
Really, the legal team for Labour on here have to make a distinction between fluff and actually improving material conditions.
Another headache landing in Starmer and Coopers in trays
Hardly, given how independent the judicial system is from the political system, I should imagine it won't trouble them much at all, beyond the blandest of vanilla statements